May 04, 2005
the truth is out there....I think.
INFO NEEDED...
In the recent Squad Report, Scott comments:
I wanted to post about your journal entry on 4/15/05 about Krugman. I get into debates online in forums all the time with liberals, and they give very specific data about how much better european countries are than us, and how we are "37th" on the list of the best health care systems in the world. What do you do when they have specific details, and we just have general, common sense concepts?
Does anyone know where specific information has been collected that supports the common sense and anecdotal evidence we've all encountered?
UPDATE: You know, thinking about this, it's really scary how normal this question is. We don't even find it strange that the sort of people we would label "liberal" or "leftish" would collect and cherish information that makes other countries look better than ours.
As part of your basic education, everyone should glance at this article, by David Brooks, Among the Bourgeoisophobes. It traces the roots of the way Americans and Jews came to be symbols of "bourgeois" evil and greed. This has become so much a part of leftish thought, and everybody's thought, that we hardly notice it. We don't notice how bizarre it is that leftish Americans have the unshakable conviction that other countries have superior health care (even though none of them travel to those countries when they are sick). Nor do we see how weird it is that the so-called-Palestinian "cause" is worth millions of man-years of protest effort and propaganda, while other Middle Eastern minorities, often much worse off, are ignored...)
Posted by John Weidner at May 4, 2005 06:51 AM | TrackBackAs someone who is definitely liberal, possibly even leftish, though by no means a lefty, I have to say that I by no means “collect and cherish information that makes other countries look better than ours.” Indeed, I can talk all damned day about how much better we are than Europe at protecting the basic liberties of everyone in our Society...
It is simply that as someone who loves and cherishes America, I wish to protect and improve her. If we can be better, I want to be...
I know you don't Andrew, and of course, like all generalizations about "right-wingers" or 'left-wingers," it's an oversimplification that does not do evrybody justice...
But the phenomenon is common enough. Just Google "Cuban infant mortality statistics."
Of course perhaps some countries do have better medical systems than we. But the anecdotal evidence i've encountered suggests otherwise.
Posted by: John Weidner at May 4, 2005 05:44 PMhere's some info and links on Canadian healthcare...
Posted by: John Weidner at May 4, 2005 06:00 PMThe easiest rebuttal is right here:
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2004rank.html
Mike
Posted by: Michael Kent at May 5, 2005 08:46 PMThe commentary that followed the question, frankly, never seems to really answer the question. He asks how to answer when a liberal gives a detailed, documented commentary on how some foreign healthcare systems are better than ours. You discuss the nature of liberals to like quoting statistics that show the US in a bad light.
But I would have to question the logic to ignoring, even hiding and/or lying about solid factual information that shows others have something that works better than our system (and it need not necessarily be limited to healthcare). Isn't that just living in a fantasy and demanding others comply with the fantasy? And as Mr Cory correctly notes - most of us liberals cite these to show that when someone on a TV pundit screamfest is saying "America has the best healthcare system in the world", we can't help but say - by what standard? Others have longer, healthier lives; they have lower infant death rates. Aren't seeking such goals in keeping with American ideals, even "compassionate conservatism"?
Oh, and Mr Kent - may on congratulate you on a true "capitalist" response - we are discussing health care, you say the response should be the CIA Fact book table on nation's per capita GDP...which has little to do with healthcare beyond showing who can afford to provide it!
Indeed, with the exception of Luxembourg, every nation with superior health stats to the US have lower GDPs. Indicating either a greater willingness to pay to ensure good healthcare as a right for all, or a superior system which delivers better care for less cost (which, FYI, is also true; one statistic is that per capita the US spends more than double on healthcare - while leaving tens of millions with no health coverage - than any other industrialized nation...yet they get better results as measured by a healthy citizenry per $ spent - ours is one of the most inefficient systems in the world).
